Make Summer Feel Like a Vacation Again

Welcome to episode 16, season 5 of the Woman Uncaged podcast! Summer is marketed like a built-in reset, but many women experience it as more planning, more coordinating, and more pressure to “make it magical” for everyone else. We dig into why summer can quietly increase the mental load for women and how that erodes the very thing we want most: freedom.

We get concrete about making summer feel like summer again. Think simple season markers (Memorial Day to Labor Day), a visible summer wish list, and giving yourself real permission to do what lights you up, not just what looks good. We share our own plans too, from hiking state parks and discovering local events to traveling to Sweden, using a backyard pool on purpose, and saying yes to small adventures like rooftop bars or a Lake Superior weekend. 

We also dig into how we cannot muscle our way into greater freedom while holding on more tightly. We explore what it takes to loosen the reins and feel more unbridled this summer and beyond!  Subscribe, share with a friend who needs more ease, and leave a review telling us: what’s one thing you are choosing for yourself this summer?

Camp Vibrant: 100 Days of Summer Liberation!

Camp Vibrant is Laura's summer camp for women who long for more fun & freedom in their lives. Instead of being the planner, caretaker, organizer and emotional support staff for everyone else, reclaim your spacious summer, your joy, and your aliveness this season!

To get all the deets on Camp Vibrant, visit: https://bit.ly/campvibrant 

Or you can sign up directly here: https://www.skool.com/camp-vibrant-7957/about

Book Mentioned:

The Anxious Generation by Jonathan Haidt

Transcript

Welcome And Camp Vibrant Invite

Linda 0:02

Hello, hello, and welcome to episode Dun 16 of season five of the Woman and Cage Podcast. Woohoo! My name is Linda Katz, and I'm here with my beloved and dear friend and co-conspirator and just all-around wonderful badass human being, Ms. Laura Gates Lupton, who is cooking up something very special for our beloved listeners and her community for the summer. It is called Camp Vibrant. So if you are a listener of the podcast and you want to spend a season really diving into becoming a more authentic, uncaged, joyous version of yourself and beginning to question what that vibrant life really means to you and what might be holding you back from living it, I cannot recommend uh working with Laura any more than this. I mean, she's such an awesome, wonderful coach. And I know that the women that she brings into her fold are amazing as well because birds of a feather flock together. So if that's something that you want, we'll put that link to that in the show notes. And without further ado, I send it over to you, Miss Laura. It's so wonderful to be here with you today. Thank you so much, Ms. Linda Katz. It was my wonderful, delightful, very funny and quirky co-conspirator who's making faces at me right now. I have to say, as I was putting together Camp Vibrant, I was thinking about Linda the whole time because most of what is in there I learned from her. So I was very much inspired by the work that I did with you when you were my coach. And of course, now I've very much integrated it, embodied it, but I have to remind myself that it very much came from you. You were the inspiration. So I'm excited that you might join us for some guest teaching in Cat Vibrant. Yes, Camp Counselor. Yes, exactly. Exactly. So lots of lots of fun cooking up some really cool things. Linda will be involved at least a little bit. And yeah, and I'm so happy to be here with you today, Linda. Well, what are we going to be talking about today that feels actually quite related to this to this topic here? Yeah, we're going to talk about summer fun. Um, and you know, it's perfect because today is actually a summery day in Minnesota. So I'm glad we're talking about this today, and I'm not sitting here freezing like I have been all week. I haven't I haven't been freezing in a long time, Laura. It was like 84 January 3rd or something ridiculous like that. I was like, that's yeah, that's why I don't live in Texas. Um, but anyway, I was thinking about this topic because I was creating Camp Vibrant, but also just remembering. I was thinking about when my kids were home and how setting up summer camps was like the bane of my existence. It was just it's so challenging to make plans for winter. And we were homeschoolers, so I was used to the kids being around, but just trying to coordinate who's doing what and who's going where and all the things. And of course the kids are all excited about it because they're gonna do these really cool camps and stuff, and that's so they're excited. And everybody's excited about summer, right? You know, it's like you go swimming, you do all the things, it's so much fun. But for women, a lot of the times it's just a lot of managing and work. And I was thinking it would be fun to talk about it here. Like, what can we do about that? Like, you know, and I'd be curious to know too, Linda, for you, because you don't have kids, how do you experience summer? Like, is do you also feel like there's like it's not that great? Or do you feel like you do get to have some of that easy, lazy, breezy time that all the advertisers tell us summer is? I mean, I do feel like I get a little bit more of that. I think there's less, you know, being child-free does have uh a little bit less management that tends to come with it. It but it really because there's no like summer vacation that happens, like when you have kids in school, there's kind of this demarcation of this as a special season, you know, of where you get three months or however long, two, three months of you know, school free. Um we I don't get that. So really it's kind of just becomes, if I'm not careful, just like any other season. And summer is never, I'm not a huge summer person. I'm very much I love fall. I love that cozy, cool pumpkins and witches and all of those things. Like October is my favorite month. Um so there is that as well. But for me, I think it's also similarly about creating a demarcation and almost like what would it take to feel the same level like of excitement that you felt on like the last day of school as a kid, and you're just like looking out, and it feels like the summer just goes on forever, and it is this time when you're young of like less responsibility. Yeah, when we're older, we might have summer jobs, or you know, but there's still there's just this vibe of freedom and um yeah, relaxation, just kind of like long, languid, chill days, you know, like that just has that vibe. And it's I think that's something that I would want to create more of for myself, also, even if it's not from just a managing other people's schedules, but just in terms of recapturing, I guess, some of that magic and joy of summer, yeah, that you feel when you're like 12 years old. Yeah, I can remember summer feeling so long before I was old enough to have a job, and you know, they just felt so long. And now as an adult, I feel like they tend to fly by. Yep. You know, we feel like, oh, I've got all summer to do whatever, and then like the end of summer, I'll think, did I go swimming at all this year? Oh, maybe I went once, you know, or it's before when I was a kid, I was like, I want any day I could go swimming, I was gonna go. Yes, you know, like growing up near Buffalo, New York, and it's nice enough to be out to swim, you're gonna swim. You know, it's like you're taking advantage. Yes. It's like we lose a little bit of that vivacity, it can or it's easy to lose a little bit of that vivacity when we become adults. Because of course, it's so much of that freedom is because, yeah, our parents worked and took care of the things, and now we have to do those things also, like you know, dinner doesn't cook itself, kind of a thing. Yeah. But I do think that we could probably re find or rekindle a little bit more of that. Yeah, that spontaneity, that simple like joie de vivre, the joy of just like it's a nice day. I'm going swimming. Like this is just happening. Yeah, yeah, I love that. And I think for me, I don't have kids now, you know. It's like I I have children, obviously, they're out in the world, but I'm not responsible for any children right now. So figuring out how to make summer summer, like how to make it stand out as a season, how to actually enjoy some of the things you can only do in summer, especially in Minnesota. Um, you know, it's like we have very cold, cold winters here. So enjoying some of the heat and stuff that I often complain about.

unknown 7:38

Yep.

Making A Summer Wish List

Linda 7:39

Yeah. Well, I feel like it's that there's like this certain thing too that it can be easy to forget the kind of like ritual markers, you know. Like I feel like the beginning of summer is really Memorial Day, and the end of summer is Labor Day, and in the middle we have the Fourth of July. And like those are kind of like the you know, the beginning, the end, and the midpoint. And to actually like embrace that maybe can help to begin to set aside like this is that summer season and set the intention for like, well, what do I want to experience and how do I want to give myself permission to be able to do more things that bring me joy? Yeah, and then carry into the other seasons too. Of course, it doesn't just be this one, but because it is this, like you know, it's kind of known for its freedom, it's like family barbecues, it's you know, whatever it is, like inviting in a little bit more of that ease energy, which I do think that summer has. I mean, we live somewhere that we don't really get a lot of winter, but even after just like a week, I'm like, man, if you live in a cold environment like Laura does in Minnesota, it's not there's not a lot of ease in terms of like getting out of the house. Oh, it's so hard. We talk about it all the time. It just adds so much, you know, just even thinking through everything you need to put on and take with you, and you know, how are the roads gonna be and all those kinds of things? Um, you know, is it too cold to be out? Is it, you know, what do I have to prepare for? Even that just sometimes will make me stay home. It's just I love seasons when I can just walk out the door. Yes. That is the one thing that is nice. I mean, most of the places that I've lived, whether it be like the Dallas area or LA, definitely, it's kind of like, oh, it's permanently 75 and sunny. It gets a little boring after a while. But I do take that kind of the ease of it almost for granted that there's not very much that you have to do to just walk out the door. Yeah. Yeah, that really does help. You know, I I just remembered something I'd completely forgotten is that I don't remember how long ago this was. My kids were all still home. I think it was like the my eldest was like in early in early teens. I remember sitting everybody down at the table and saying, okay, we're gonna make a list. This is right before Memorial Day of things everybody wants to do this summer, and we'll each get to do at least one of them, you know, because there's also that thing too of like kids have all these things they want to do, and then the adults don't necessarily factor in. It's like, you know, your dad and me too. We're gonna put things on the list and then we're gonna have it on the wall, we're gonna check them off as we do them, and we're gonna, you know, try to do these things. And that actually did make for a nice summer that year. Maybe I need to do that for myself this year. I love that idea. What is one thing that you want to do this summer? Like, what is the first thing that comes to mind where you're like, this is what I really would love? Well, immediately getting out to some of the state parks and hiking. We did a couple last year, but we didn't do as many as we intended to. Um, and so I want to be a little bit more mindful of that. It's so easy to get caught up in other things and just let the summer go by. And we really only well, now we're doing a four-day work week, so this should help. I was gonna say we really only have weekends, which makes it more challenging. But yeah, my partner and I just decided to we're we're doing four-day work weeks and and we're doing it now. This last week was our official first week of doing that. I love that. I'm so excited for you guys. Having a three-day weekend definitely helps because then you know, otherwise, it's like one day's taking up with errands, Sunday. He has church and other things, and then it's like, oh, there goes the weekend. Yep, you know, maybe better luck next time.

unknown 11:19

I know.

Summer Plans That Actually Happen

Parenting Without Constant Managing

Linda 11:20

Yes, I know. So having Mondays to get out and do some things would really help. So I would like to do that. I'd also just like to find out because I'm still somewhat new here, what other things are going on, like if there are concerts and parks or things like that. I don't know what's here. So that's another piece of it. Yeah. We have tickets to Bonnie Rate in August. Oh, so excited about that. Love it, love it. At the state fair here. So we got those already. Um, but other than that, it's kind of a blank slate. Yeah. How about for you? I mean, well, there was one thing that I realized that I wanted to do that is now happening, which is that I'm going to Sweden in June. I'm taking a week to go see my oldest nephew graduate from high school. And I also just realized that I was like, I would love to just walk the streets of Stockholm. Like there was just all of a sudden this overwhelming desire/slash recognition that it was like, if there's one thing I want to do, it is that. It's something that we used to do when I was a kid because my dad, you know, was here on contract. So we would get as part of that contract, they would pay to have the entire family go back to Sweden and he would get Swedish vacations. So we would be there for three and a half weeks every summer. Man, I want to gig like that. I know, right? So I'm like, it's uh there's also that like that recapturing again that energy of a little bit more of the childhood piece. And I love Scandinavia in the summertime. I mean, it's just it's probably got a similar kind of vibe to Minnesota in a lot of ways, because I know a lot of Finns and Swedes settled there because they're like, this looks like home. Yes. The temperatures are about the same. Exactly. So it's like everything is just so green and lush. And because there is this appreciation for that weather, everyone is outside. You know, there's just every outdoor cafe is just packed with people, like everyone is wanting to enjoy, you know, like the the summertime, and you really feel like it has this like pulse. And I feel like here it starts off maybe a little bit, not quite like that, but by the tail end of the summer, I'm like, help me, Rhonda. Please take me somewhere cooler. Because when it gets to August and it's 105, I'm like, hmm. So yeah, Sweden, that was definitely one of the things, like actually going on vacation, giving myself permission to do it. Um, you know, I'd kind of been waiting to see if my parents wanted to go. It's just me. Um, Eric's gonna be here with Ursa, so it's just me going to see my family. A friend is gonna come visit while I'm there. Um which is great. Yeah. And the other thing that I think you said was swimming. We have a pool. And I think I love your pool. I know, and so often it can be really easy when it's there as an adult to just not use it that often, even during the summer months. It's like I want to bust out like my I have a big speaker that Eric bought me for when I uh taught in Austin regularly. I want to bring that thing out. I want to put on my playlists on the weekend, you know, go swimming, invite friends over, make white wine spritzers, you know, like oh, you're talking my language. I know, you know, like just that joy, that togetherness, like tapping into a little bit more of that part of the season so that it's not, yeah, so that it doesn't just go by and then you're like, oh shit, it's August or September already. And there it went. And we didn't really, we didn't really take advantage of the things that we do have and tapping into that energy more. Yeah. Okay, so you've reminded me of two other things I want to do. I'm glad we're having this conversation because I wrote them down. Um, I mentioned this to a woman. I haven't we haven't met in person yet, but we've been, she's local and we've we met through an organization that we're both part of, and we're gonna meet up. And she was asking me some things I wanted to do, and I said, I'm wondering if there are any rooftop bars around here, because in Cincinnati there's a great one, and I really loved going to. And she's like, Oh, I think there are. Let's go do that together. So anyway, so there's that's on the list. And I just I'm so glad I've got to reach out to her. Um, I said I would when I got back from my trip and I hadn't done it yet. And the other, this will not surprise you, Linda. The other thing I really want to do is to at least take a long weekend, if not a week, in Marquette, Michigan in August. Because it's the one time of year we can really swim in Lake Superior. And I've only gone once, I've been there many times, but I've only gone once in the summer when it was in August, and it was so great. I just loved it so much. And I want to get my partner up there with me because he's never been. Oh, I love that. That's definitely on the list. Yes. Oh, it's like creating um rituals aren't the word. What's the word I'm thinking of? You know, where it's like maybe it is rituals, like creating our for the time of life that we're in now, like what are the summer things that we like really look forward to to make it so that that season can stand out and giving ourselves permission to do those things. So this begs the question though, because we started off, you know, with like people who, if you maybe, you know, many of my friends have small children. Yeah. What does this look like for them? You know, like what when you were in that time of your life, you said one of the things you did was, you know, like putting the list on the board, these are the things that everyone wants. We're gonna do, you know, something from you, but then something from mom and then something from dad. What else would you say to somebody who is in like the intense parenting part of their life? The smartest thing I did when my kids were young was hire a neighbor who had a child to take my kids out on Fridays for in the afternoon for three or four hours and do things with them. They could go to her house or they could go somewhere on like a essentially a field trip. And and my then husband and I took that time off. We weren't working, and then sometimes we just hung out at home, sometimes we did things. Um, but it was the best thing we did that summer. It was so good because the kids had a great time. They were excited to go, they were excited to see her, excited to be out there. And my youngest at the time was three um when we did this, and and it just gave us a break to kick back. Sometimes we'd have a glass of wine in the middle of the afternoon, like not something you normally do with little kids around. You know, it's like we had a really shady patio, we'd go hang out on the patio, we then we had a view of a pond, we'd sit there and drink a glass of wine or talk, or sometimes go for a hike, or you know, go out to a we went to a farm to pick strawberries, which is so much more fun when you don't have little kids that you're trying to herd the whole time. You know, it's like, no, don't go over there, no, stay over here, no, don't pick that. You know, that is not fun. That's a lot of management again. Yes, a lot of management. No throwing the strawberries. So, yeah, that was one of the best things. Um, also, I would say like looking for things you can do where the kids are entertained that doesn't require a lot from you. So, for example, we had a really nice state park with a very shallow beach that sometimes we would take the kids, and part of me, I sometimes I think, oh good, the lifeguard can rein them in. They're stepping out somewhere where they can't, the lifeguard will tell them not to. Right. I don't have to be so on, so on guard the whole time. Not that I wasn't right there, but you know, it was just kind of nice to know like I'm not the only adult managing the situation. I can sit here with my feet in the cold water while I'm watching my kids play. You know, that kind of thing. Yeah. Um if there are any places like that where it's like you're it's almost like you're off, even though you're not can really feel good. I love that. And I think that also kind of judging like going back to what we spoke about last week, I think there's also that part internally, you know, like allowing ourselves to turn off the management piece, to find the moments where it's like you can relax. And that's something that I still work on just with having a dog, you know. It's like, oh, this is the time where I it's out of my control, or there is someone else who can handle this part. I don't have to be so actively managing every situation all the time. Um if you can't afford a babysitter, sorry, I just go ahead. No, go ahead. You can if you can't afford a babysitter, which there are definitely times when I couldn't either. Um, we did exchanges with other families. So, like one Friday we'd take their kids, one Friday they'd take our kids, that kind of thing. And um, so there are ways to work with it without having to spend money too. That makes sense. But you have to be willing to let other people interact with your kids in a way that might be different than you do. Again, it comes back to the management piece and the letting go of control. Yes. Yes. Oh my gosh. Which a lot of my clients struggle with, you know, it's like even with grandparents, they want to tell the grandparents what they can and can't do with the kids, and certainly around some safety things. Like I know some grandparents are really out of touch around car seats and you know, you don't leave the baby in the car when you go grocery shopping like they did, you know, that kind of thing. Of course. Wear the seatbelt. Be clear, yeah, for a reason. I fell out of the car when I was four, definitely wear the seatbelts, but but you know, other things like you know, they can only eat between 12 and 12 30, and these are the five foods they can eat, and all, you know, like let go of some of that stuff. Yeah. Like, you know, to and it's best for your kids to actually experience what somebody else is likes to do and how they do things. Yeah. And it's great for you not to have to like write long lists for all the people caring for them. Yeah. Yeah. It just reminds me, I know I mentioned Leanne on the last call, but that was one of my favorite quotes that she gave me. My old coach, Leanne Raymond, was like, just when something is out of your control does not mean that it's out of control. And that that is actually like your time where you get to relax is when things are not in your control anymore. Yeah. And it's like that is the piece that I think for many women it can be really hard to really take in. Like, oh, it's out of my control. So now I can just now's my time to exhale and surrender and trust. And that yeah, that might actually be good for the kids or for your dog, for in my case, you know, to have a different. Experience. This is also what builds resilience and curiosity about the world and trust you know, trust for everyone, right? Yes. If you feel like only mom can keep you safe, the world's a very small place. Yes. Yes. Which is it's so funny because we're we're recording this on a Friday, and tomorrow, as long as the weather and everything cooperates, we're taking Ursa to her first social club. And one of the things is like once the dogs go off leash, we haven't taken her to um a dog park or anything like that because when she was a puppy, especially, she was super reactive on leash to other dogs, and we're like, oh, this feels like a free-for-all. And so this is like a pseudo-managed situation, right? With her trainers and like other people. But one of the rules is that once the dogs go off leash, you cannot interact with your dog. Oh wow. You can't call your dog off, you can't tell it to do anything, you cannot interact with your dog. Oh, I can't wait to hear how this goes. I'm so wildly like uncomfortable just saying I know you are, I can tell. I'm like, oh my, what is that gonna be like? You know, because it's just like you can almost like feel the word like escaping out of your mouth. Like it's like being a, you know, like a big play area and watching your kids play, and then all of a sudden you're like, but you can't interact. Like it's just a time for the the dogs to get to experience dog-on-dog interaction without their owners intervening and controlling and managing the situation. And I'm like, I'm very excited and I'm equal parts like terrified and really uncomfortable, but it's yeah, it's exactly that. It's like we have to loosen the reins a little bit, oftentimes to experience that feeling that so many of us associate with summer, right? It's like that sense of freedom and relaxation. It's unbridled. Yeah, unbridled. Oh, what a good word. Yes, we must unbridle ourselves and one another.

unknown 23:59

Yeah.

Letting Go Of Control To Feel Free

Linda 24:00

Well, I do think so. I think that's part of it. I mean, I was thinking as you were talking about a client I have who had four kids. And um, last summer I think it was when she was telling me, Oh, yeah, we're doing summer salads this year. And so she was like making salad, big salads that she could leave in the fridge, and then people could help themselves. And just so that a little bit hands-off, you know, it's just like not doing quite so much cooking, not so many planned meals, just more like, oh, it's right there, we'll just pull it out and have it, you know. And and she was having fun with it. She was coming up with new recipes and the kids were cooking some too and stuff, and she was really enjoying it. And I think that if we can all look at the places in our lives where we've got the reins pretty tightly, whether we want to or not, yeah, and look at like, well, how could I loosen this up? I mean, you're taking this brave step with Ursa tomorrow to literally let go of the reins. Yeah. So what can the rest of us be doing? You know? Yeah. Where are we hanging on tightly? Yes, I think that is a great question. And I love the word just unbridled. It's that, like, yeah, like so often what we yearn for, you know, I remember when I started doing health coaching in like 2013. And as I was at uh the Institute for Integrative Nutrition, we had, you know, like the intake form that we would do. And 99% of women that I spoke to, and it was like, what do you want more of? Freedom was the answer. Yeah. Like I think that there's something about that, and it comes back again to the outer cages, but also those inner cages of it's really hard to feel free when we're holding on and gripping so tightly in an in an effort to try to make sure that everything's okay and that everyone's okay and everyone's well fed and taken care of, and all of these things. And we're just like, but if I let go, like what happens then? So we're like, I'm not gonna find out. I can muscle my way to freedom, I can hold on so tight to everything, and then we grab on to more and more and more, and we believe that at some point magically we're like, I'm gonna be holding on to everything, and I'll be holding on to so much that I will finally feel free. Yeah, somehow it doesn't quite work that way. Shocking, I know, but it doesn't stop us from trying. I can speak for myself, it doesn't stop us from trying. Yeah, and I I think one of the joys of summer as a kid is has having different routines, you know, that's part of like not going to school, but they're bigger things too, like getting to be outside later, or you know, and when I was a kid and uh our uh where I grew up, it was a small village, but we we were on a hill overlooking the village, so it was a like it was a community within a community. And the kids, we just all just ran around all day. My parents didn't even know where we were all day, but at night the moms would turn the porches on, port light, porch light on when they wanted us to come home, you know, sort of the ritual, and they had no idea where we were or what we were doing, but there was some perceived safety, you know. So I don't not necessarily recommending that now, but if there are places where you can kind of loosen up your routine, even like if there are things where you feel like this has to happen at this time, is there a way to shake that up, you know, or ice cream for dinner or you know, dessert first one night? Maybe have a yes day where you just sort of say yes to everything and see what happens. I mean, just I love the idea when you're thinking about freedom is of experimenting to see what feels more free. It doesn't have to be a like, okay, one day we're doing this, and the next day it's a total free-for-all. It doesn't have to be like that. No, I love that. I love the ex the experimentation. And it's just, you know, what hearing you say that too, it reminds me of um Jonathan Hayde, I think is his name, who wrote The Anxious Generation. And he talks about part of what makes, you know, has contributed to that factor is that we've overprotected kids and probably dogs and probably ourselves so much in the real world and underprotected them in the online world. And it's like I I think there's something really potent to giving that freedom, whether it's to our kids, to our dogs, to to the our spouses, you know, like letting everybody in your life have a little bit more freedom is what also gives us the freedom. But it's really hard because it requires the relinquishing of control and so much, so much of that stuff. Yeah. I think what I would add to that is yes, offer that opportunity to the other people you love in your life and your pets, for example. Um, but but thoughtfully consider where you want the freedom.

unknown 28:36

Yes.

Linda 28:36

Like where would it be feel good to you to have freedom? Would it feel good to you to not have a set bedtime? Would it feel better to go to bed early? Like, is there something there like to or just shut yourself in your room at eight o'clock at night and not come out? Like just to have the space and maybe your partner takes over with the kids, or if you don't have kids, then why aren't you doing that now? Yeah, like you know, finding the spaces where it's like, I just want to be.

unknown 29:03

Yes.

Linda 29:05

Yes. That's what I felt like when you were describing just sitting out on the porch, the shaded porch, overlooking the pond, drinking the wine for an afternoon. It's like you just get a chance to be. And I think that that in so many ways captures for me the energy of summer, like especially when you're a kid, is that it's always time to just exist and to be and to do whatever you want to do. There's no focus on productivity, there aren't end goals to meet. You don't have to worry about grades, you don't have to worry about you know getting up for school or whatever it is. It's everybody's hair being perfect and matching clothes and all those things, you know. It's just like giving where are the spaces in our life where we really want more space to be, and how can we provide that for ourselves? Because I know for myself, if I don't have it, I'm not a very happy or healthy whole person. Oh, for sure, for sure. And I I come back to the KOIA thing too, which is you know, concentrate more on how it feels to you and not so much how it looks to somebody else.

unknown 30:08

Yes.

Reclaim Your Time And Wrap Up

Linda 30:09

You know, put your focus there. And and that also just reminds me, and I know Linda's heard this before, but my friend Peggy is one of my role models, and she's 82 now. But a couple summers ago, I think it was during the pandemic, actually, she told me, she's like, Yeah, it was so it's like being a kid again. She's like, I'd wake up in the morning and I'd throw on yesterday's t-shirt and a pair of shorts and think, what am I gonna do today? I'm like, I love that so much. She's like, Yeah, I just you know, it's just freedom. Getting to be kind of like a kid. And if and maybe you can't do that all the time, but maybe you could find a weekend or a day or a day a week. And I think that's probably more of what life is meant to be. I think so too. Like when we start to actually reclaim our time, as we've spoken about before, you know, it's like this is actually this is our life, it belongs to us. Like, this is this is not a dress rehearsal, this is ours. We don't have to, we're not buying our time back from somebody else, we don't have to prove it to anyone, you know. Like this is your life to live. So yeah, wake up this a few mornings at least every week and be like, what do I want to do today? Yeah. Rather than like, oh god, I have my to-do list. Yeah. What am I supposed to be doing today? Seriously. And you know, if any of this resonates with you or it feels impossible, or it feels really hard, or come join us in Camp Vibrant. This is what we're gonna be doing. We're gonna be creating a joyous summer with the idea of creating freedom that lasts into the next season, too. It's not just gonna be about summer. We have breaking through some of those inner cages. Once you break through them, you don't go back. Yeah, yeah, it's real hard. They might come up a little bit, but once you get a taste, yeah. You know, I could never go back. No, no, no. Well, I know that brings us to the end of our time today. So make sure that you check out Camp Vibrant. Dear, dear listeners, we'd love to hear what your plans are otherwise for the summer and how you're tapping into this energy. I know that I'm feeling more excited about summer after this conversation. Me too. Me too. Yay. And you have to report back. We'll have to report back how tomorrow goes with Ursa. I will yes, that'll be next week's podcast. It'll be a therapy session for Lindsay's leading. Probably. All right, all right, until next time. Until next time.