How to Create a Life That Feels Like Your Own

Welcome to episode 10, season 5 of the Woman Uncaged podcast! A lot of us say we want freedom, but our calendars and choices tell a different story. In this week's episode, we dig into the uncomfortable, liberating question at the heart of midlife growth: how do you create and live your own life instead of acting out someone else’s expectations? We start with what it looks like when life is prescripted, whether that comes from religion, family roles, culture, or the quieter fundamentalism of “good/bad” thinking that leaves no room to experiment. 

From there, we explore identity, people pleasing, the Good Girl pattern, and the reflex to deliver long explanations so nobody thinks we’re doing life “wrong.” We also share a grounded approach to life design: try things in small ways, allow detours, and stop treating every new interest like it has to become your calling. 

We close with a big theme that threads through everything: fear-based decision making. There are always costs and consequences to bold choices, but there are costs and consequences to staying small, too. We unpack how self-trust is built through real experience, why discomfort is often the price of freedom, and how the right community can help you grow without shame. If you’re ready for more authenticity, stronger boundaries, and a life that fits, listen now, then subscribe, share with a friend, and leave a review. What’s one experiment you want to try next?

Transcript

Warm Welcome And Friendship

Linda 0:02

Hello everyone and welcome to Woman Uncaged. I am Laura Gates Lepton and this is episode 10 of season five. And I'm here with my delightful bestie, Linda Katz. And I was thinking about Linda this morning and about just how how much I love the wide range of things that she's interested in. Because it's true though. I like how multidimensional you are. That's a better way of saying it. She's laughing. But I was thinking about like this time of year, she starts going all in on plants. She's really into gardening. And so I get to hear all these really fun things about her plants because you know she doesn't live where I do. So there's actually they're actually planting now. She's giving me a goofy look. Um, but I was just thinking about all the things. Like I was thinking also about how I love that you recommend really good books to me. I'm reading a book right now that I really love, which I learned about from Linda, and maybe we'll mention that a little bit later. But just so many things come into my life because Linda has such wide-ranging interests, and she she's just one of those people that's I guess very alive in lots of ways, but also is constantly like bringing new things into my life through that channel. And I just really adore that about you. There's so many things I love about you, how wise you are, articulate, funny, smart. I love that you're my personal dream whisperer and tarot expert. Um, but also just this thing that, you know, we talk about so many different things in the course of a day. We will send each other, I don't know how many boxers, and they're about so many different topics and so many different things. And I just really love that about you, Linda, and it's great to be here with you. Oh, thank you so much, Laura. That really warmed my heart, and it's so wonderful to be here with you today. And I was laughing because I just so often I the way it feels in my body is like, I am all over the place. And so I love that that there's a joyful receptivity on your end to what often is a wide array of random ass shit that I send you. I just I really truly love it. I was just thinking about how much it expands my world. And, you know, like my partner and I were talking last night about what it means to um and increase somebody's like joy of living. Like, what does it mean to contribute to that, to like their experience of life? And that's thinking about that with you, that you definitely contribute to mine. Oh, thank you. And likewise, because there's such a joy, as we were speaking about last week, um, when Laura just randomly throws out in the middle of our conversation on AI and creating new economies, like, well, I think about that often actually. Like, how do we create our own economy, like a different economy? And I was like, I love that you're thinking about this. Like, you're the only person I think in my life that I would say that just like, and I know the depth behind it of um, you know, just how much deep thinking that you also do about yeah, the the big things that are happening in our world and also how you intertwine and interweave it with our individual lives, particularly for the women in your life. And I think that's just such a tremendous gift that you have of holding the both the big picture and doing the deep thinking on these very large topics, which I find so exciting because I'm like, tell me more about this, and how it also relates to our very personal lives, like the nitty-gritty. Like, there's not, it's not one or the other, it's both. And I think that's what makes you such a wonderful friend for me, and a wonderful coach and mentor and leader is your ability to be with the personal and the practical, and also these really big, uh, sometimes more abstract and large systems-based questions that you interweave so beautifully. And I just love that about you. Oh, thank you, Linda. Oh, I love this. So, what are we gonna talk about today, my dear friend? So, today we're talking about something that is a phrase that we've used all like we use pretty frequently, and I think we hear it, at least in in our circles rather frequently, which is about creating and living your own life rather than living someone else's. And what prompted the this podcast topic was Eric, my husband and I recently watched The Hours, and I remembered about halfway through the movie that I was like, I think I read this book. I think I own this book. Didn't remember anything that happened, um, as per usual. But um one, you know, I think this is a really big part of the through line between the three characters in that book and in that movie is this question around three women who are uh wrestling with or dancing with this question of what does it mean to live your own life versus someone else's? And I think especially for someone like, you know, from I don't know a lot about Virginia Wolf. I became much more interested in her biography after seeing this movie. Um, I've read a couple of her books, but you know, for her, there was also this piece around, you know, I guess mental illness, but also massive creativity and, you know, her having this partner who really supported her to live her own life, even if there was going to be a cost associated with it. And of course there was in the long run. Uh, but she produced in that time, she created and tapped into some really gorgeous, life-changing work that we're still talking about. And um yeah, so I we just thought it would be really interesting to dive into like what does it mean to really create and live your own life versus someone else's? How do we know the difference? Also, where would you like to start with that, Laura? What comes up for you? Uh well, I think it'd be helpful to talk briefly about what it looks like not to create your own life. Like, I think having that distinction would be really helpful. And one of the things that immediately comes up for me is like fundamentalist ways of living, where you're part of a community where everything is very prescripted. So, you know, it's like there is not much wiggle room around what you wear, what you eat, how you behave, even the times of day that you do things. Like everybody has their role and they're supposed to stay in it. You know, lanes are pretty narrowly defined. And that's kind of how I think of it. What how would you would describe that for yourself? I mean, I love that because I think that contrast can be such a beautiful feature. And um, I wouldn't necessarily have thought of fundamentalist living, but I think that's a great and very stark example that makes it very difficult to create and live your own life. And even the ways that that that those fundamentalist beliefs can show up for all of us, where there's this rigid kind of binaries of good, bad, right, wrong, and what should I be doing? How should I dress? How should I be speaking? A lot of those things can betray that we're not actually living our own lives. We're not living from the center of ourselves. We're not living according to some internal truth or compass, but rather from some way that has been prescribed, whether it's by family, religion, culture at large, uh, political, affiliated party, whatever it is. There's so many forces in our life that really do try to push us in one certain direction and flatten us out. Yes. I think that's the word that kind of comes to mind to me is this like pancaking of it makes life really flat. Yeah. Yeah. And and obviously it's a it's an extreme example, but I think it's just helpful to point out like what it looks like on that kind of extreme. Oh, a hundred percent. And I I love everything you were just saying. And it just makes me think about like I went out to lunch with a friend I hadn't seen in four years. We used to live near each other in Ithaca. She now lives in LA. I live in Minnesota, but I was in LA, so we went out to lunch, and you know, she's been a vegetarian the whole time I've known her. And so we're about to have lunch. She said, Oh, I I don't think I've told you I eat salmon now. So, but if it would bother you, like I won't get it. And I was like, Oh no, it's fine, totally, you know, because I've been a vegetarian since I was 17. Um, but it's things like that, right? Where it's like, I have her in my head as a vegetarian, and so I now I have to shift my picture of her a little bit because now she's pescatarian, which is completely cool in my book. But you know, it's it, but it's allowing for that too, and not feeling somehow threatened by that, where I have had other relationships where I've made changes and somebody felt really threatened by that because I was no longer fitting the same thing that they were. Yes, yes, and I think that that is such an important piece because I think one of the hindrances or obstacles to creating our own life and to allowing others to create their own lives, which I think is kind of the flip side of that coin, is it can be really easy and I think very common, especially in our society, to want to control other people's journeys and to exactly control them based upon the picture that we have of them in our own head. And it reminds me, I was sharing with Laura um last week, I had this dream that feels so related to this, where when I was younger, like in my 20s probably, uh, a dream where I was with my family. I was living in West Hollywood at the time, and my dad wasn't there. And all of a sudden there was like a knock at the door, and I opened the door, and it's my dad, and it's he's with this young woman who looks very similar to me, but she's a little taller and like just but otherwise very similar. And I was like, Who's this? And my dad's answer was, oh, that's you from my dream. And in this dream that I had recently, there was this like, it was like a friend breakup that was the theme of the dream of, you know, kind of coming to the end of this relationship and and acknowledging, like, oh, this doesn't quite feel right anymore. And but it was the same, the friend in this dream looked very much like me, but and it brought up this previous dream. And I felt that from from that, there was this sense of, oh, I'm breaking up with the version of me that is part of someone else's dream. Someone else's dream of who I am, how I should be, how I should show up. Oftentimes, like you were saying, that might be based on who they have known me to be. Yes. And how that can really become stifling, and we can stifle ourselves, we can stifle our own development and growth when we play along. Yeah. Well, and I think those two things, I love that you brought them together too, creating our own lives and allowing other people to also they're dramatically intertwined. Because sometimes as a therapist, when I would work with parents who had not been allowed to sort of create their own lives, they wanted to live in a way that was different from how their family did, and they felt like they couldn't make that choice. They didn't want their kids to either. And it was really hard for them to step back and see that part of why they were controlling their kids so much was because they felt controlled and they didn't want to grieve the opportunities that they missed. It was felt better to somehow mold their kids in the way that they had been molded. And just perpetuate that same pattern, even though somewhere deep inside their soul knew that yeah, that this was I really wanted something different for myself, but I couldn't break free. So I'm gonna just continue to utilize that control. Yeah, like in my family, we're lawyers, we're all lawyers, and you're gonna be a lawyer too, because that's what we do. And no, I didn't want to be a lawyer, I wanted to be an artist, but I couldn't. So you're not gonna get to do what you want to do either. So common is so freaking heartbreakingly sad. Yes. Yes. And it can be really hard to confront that within ourselves, the ways in which we haven't allowed ourselves to it's not even other forces. Sometimes it's just we ourselves haven't allowed ourselves to be who we really want to be. And then how difficult it can be and how triggering it can be when we see someone else who is doing that. I mean, there's the part, there can be the part of us that celebrates it and is like, I'll have what she's having, kind of a thing. And there can oftentimes be the like, I feel triggered by this because someone is living in a way that I haven't allowed myself to. Someone's living out loud, someone is doing their own thing, someone has really, you know, that someone's really up. Someone's really up. Yeah, so excited. There's a whole backstory to that that I don't know if we'll be getting into. Someone in my life used to throw that at women mostly in a derogatory way. Well, she's really up. The horror to be excited about life and something that you're doing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That kind of thing of who does she think she is? Like, look at her over there in that colorful outfit living her life. Yeah. So freaking so common. I mean, and it's no wonder then that I think that we this, you know, like in when I was doing coaching, so much of it was around the dynamic of the good girl and the rebel. And how if we've been in that good girl, which another way of looking at that is just I'm living according to other people's dreams. And it might depend on the people that I'm with. Their dreams of me or how they see me might be different. And so I chameleon myself to show up exactly how they see me and how they want me to be. And then we swing over into the rebel because there's this like hardening that takes place because it is, it can be really difficult to uh peel away those projections and you know, to just go out into the world as we truly are and have those kinds of interactions or feel that energy from people of like, well, who does she think she is? You know, like yeah. Well, and those it's yeah, it can be hard to face other people's reactions. It can be hard to let go of those identities too that we've held on to. So especially I know for both of us working with women at midlife, you know, we've had several decades of identifying with, and even when it's uncomfortable, I can still feel like I don't know if I want to let that go. Yeah, a hundred percent. I'm I'm the reliable one, or I'm the one, I'm the good friend, I'm the one who's always there, no matter what it is, or I'm you know, whatever the role is, whatever the identity that we've taken on, that we've it we carry it, like at least for me, it's like I've carried some of them like a burden, but they've also been a source of some kind of power, belonging, you know, pride. Exactly. Yes. And so it can be really hard to be like, oh, if I peel that away and to question even the questioning of is this actually part of who I am? Or is this more part of who I was taught I should be? And who I became as a result of all of these different things? Like, yeah, what is actually mine? What is actually natural to me versus what have I picked up along the way? What is a fucking coping mechanism and not a whole lot else? Yeah. One of the assignments I have given to clients over the years is to go through a period of time in which she is unapologetically herself. So sometimes it's a short period of time, sometimes it's a day, you know, sometimes it's a week, sometimes it's longer. One of my clients did it for a month last year, actually the month of March now that I think about it. Um and yeah, and just to see those places where you're people pleasing or choosing a path that you know will be comfortable for other people rather than what you truly want to do. And when you choose your own path to not apologize for it, which is the other piece, because that's so much of what we take on just for ourselves, we tend to apologize for. With very lengthy apologies too, or very lengthy justifications. That was one thing I saw in my own coaching practice a lot of times was uh well, I need you to understand why I'm doing this, why I'm not gonna show up exactly the way you think I'm gonna do it. So I'm gonna give you the litany of everything else that's going on in my life so that you understand and you're not gonna think I'm a bad person. Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna explain to you why I'm no longer seeking your approval. And do you please approve that I'm no longer doing that? Yes.

unknown 17:21

Yes.

Experimentation Without Big Announcements

Fear Versus Desire And Regret

Linda 17:22

I mean, I'm laughing, but I mean I've done it too. You know, it's like I've definitely done it too, where I just want the other person to really understand why I'm making this change or whatever. Um, but yeah, it's um but if you think about like I mean, I think that's kind of at the core of designing your own life or creating your own life is figuring out who you exactly you are and living from it. And the hard thing about that is you can't pick up a book and find it. You can't like it's it's very much excavated from within. And trial and error. Trial and error. It can feel you can think your you can try to think your way through it and you can think there are things that you'll like and find out you don't. That definitely was true for me. You know, it's like we don't I think it's one of those things that you have to do. You have to, you know, suss out what you want, what you're interested in, what you think it might be, but you have to actually put it to the test. Yes, yes, a hundred percent. We have to allow ourselves the space to experiment. And I think that's part of the, you know, kind of coming back to the fundamentalist ideas and the rigidities there. So often, you know, if we don't really allow ourselves a lot of experimentation in cultures that are fundamentalist in any way, shape, or form, because that's really uh destabilizing for those kinds of thought forms and beliefs is oh, I don't know if this is gonna be right for me, and I'm gonna try it on for a little bit rather than what we tend to see is I was a hundred percent pro this and now I'm a hundred percent anti and I'm a hundred percent pro this other thing, and we just ping around, and it's it's there's nothing wrong with that either, but it's like, oh, we can just can we allow ourselves the space to experiment a little bit more without so much of the judgment for ourselves or for other people of like, oh, is this me? I don't know, and I'm not gonna know until I try it on, yeah. And then we get stuck, we pigeonhole ourselves in things because we're like, oh, I said I was gonna do this, or I was gonna be this, or I was a hundred percent not moving here, and then here I made the announcement. I made this huge announcement to the world, and now here I am three months later, and I'm like, I this wasn't what it what I thought it was gonna be. And I think that's another way that we can tend to um prevent ourselves from from living our own lives is to feel bad about I wouldn't even call them mistakes necessarily, but like growth opportunities, learning opportunities, trying things that didn't work out the way we thought they would. And how much of life really is that? And how much a lot, how much fun would it be to be able to do that with less pressure, you know? Like, yeah. Well, I think I think that's a key right there, actually, is around the pressure piece is finding people who won't put pressure on you when you're first taking those first steps, when you're first trying to experiment a little bit, don't go to your most judgy relative and be like, hey, I've decided I'm gonna be a digital nomad and move to Kosovo, you know, like don't announce it there. Yeah. Start with the people who have some more openness to them and who also maybe experiment in their own lives or want to. Um, and if you can't, if you don't have anybody like that in your life, then hire somebody. You know, find a coach. I know for me when I was working with Linda as her client, it was extremely helpful to be able to say to her, and I remember being quite shy about some things, and I would be like, well, I'm thinking about this. Linda was very encouraging. But you know, it's kind of it does feel a little like a vulnerable to to announce that, well, I know I've been doing this all my life, but I've been considering this. Exactly. Or I think one of the things that we can do too is that we put I maybe it comes back to that fundamentalism thing, like the putting all our eggs in one basket, and you know, whatever it's like, oh, I realize that I like I'm I'm exploring weaving, and so now I'm gonna become a weaver. Like that's gonna be my job. Like that's my calling, is I'm gonna be weaving all my money on weaving, plumes, material, everything. All I do now. Yeah. And it's like, okay, maybe we don't have to do that. Maybe we could take a class in weaving. Maybe we could, you know, experiment with one small thing to see how it feels. But I think again, it can be that like I'm all or nothing. It's like, oh, that this is nothing. My life path. This is my calling. And then, yeah, we're like, oh shit, no, that wasn't it. I don't, I mean, I've tried, I've done that a lot. As Laura alluded to, I'm very multi-creative and like lots of different things. And there was a time where I invested in some weaving equipment. And I made one weaving, and then I was like, I feel complete with this. Never touched it again. Oh, that's so funny. And because my mom's a quilter, for a while I did like a steep dive into quilting. Like I just learned a ton about it. I love the idea of quilting. I love it as an art form. I love that it uses up scrap materials sometimes, depending on your kind of quilting you do. Not always, you know. Um, all the things. But when it came time to like actually play around with doing quilting, I was like, eh, yeah, not for me. Which to my mother's utter disappointment, I'm sure. But, you know, it's sometimes things also intrigue us for a period of time. And then they run their course. They're just a season of life. I've had plenty of those things where now I would look back and be like, gosh, I have no interest in that at all. But at the time I was totally enamored. Yep. Yep. We don't allow for those things very easily here. We we really like to pigeonhole people. Yeah. And I think we really imagine our life journey as a straight line. Yes. You know, and it's like, or it's like, oh, I took a left turn, but now I'm back on track. You know, it's this idea. I will always come back to this metaphor. And I may have shared it on the podcast before. I'm pretty sure I've shared it with you, Laura, that my longtime coach Leanne Raymond told me many, like a decade ago, because I use the term I'm course correcting, which I think is something that is so common, like in our lexicon. But she was like, Well, what does that tell you? You know, it's like, oh, I know where my destination is, and I got off course and I'm I'm trying to get there as quickly and efficiently as I can. And now I've, you know, wind came and pushed me over to the east, and now I'm getting back on track. And she offered me, this is very fitting given all of my planting currently, the metaphor of a tomato plant about thinking of yourself and your interests as tomato plants, that like not every cluster of leaves is going to flower, or and not every flower is going to be pollinated and become fruit. But they're all part of the plant, like all of those leaves are soaking in the nourishment from the sun and nourishing the roots and the whole freaking plant that is us. And I feel like there's to me that my journey is so much more like that, and it's so much more organic and unplanned. And most of the time I have no clue where I'm going. And sometimes I get really frustrated by that because of course I would love to be like, I'm gonna set my intentions and my goals, and I'm moving towards them, and then I do, and I'm like, eh, I don't like that anymore. That wasn't my goal. Yeah. Well, some things that sound good aren't, you know, for us. We just don't know it exactly until you try them out, or it could be like, oh, is it the way that I'm doing this thing? Is it like there's so much to life? And so I think that in terms too of creating and living our own lives, it's like giving ourselves and one another the grace to to play, to experiment, to and we take everything so seriously, right? Oh gosh, it's so just like and some things are extremely serious, but not everything needs to be that serious. Yeah. I think the other thing that gets in the way a lot too is that we tend to and not not from bad intentions, but we tend to live fear-based lives, a lot of us. And so that also gets in the way because we can get way caught up in the thinking of, but what will happen if? And imagining all the worst possible outcomes, you know, it's like guilty. What if I do take a leave of absence from my job and go to Kosovo for a year with my computer to be a freelance writer? What if what if the country has a revolution while I'm there and I can never get back? Or, you know, what if I love lemons and they don't have lemons in Kosovo? Like, what am I gonna do? Like we make up these scenarios in our heads and scare the shit out of ourselves. Yep. Or we've even looked at a map.

unknown 26:24

Yep.

Linda 26:25

It's so easy to cut cut off those little fledgling dreams before they even have a chance to sprout, really. Yes. And I think, oh, that's so such an astute and uh oh painful observation. Why is it painful, Linda? Like, oh no, here comes Laura's coaching hat. She's like, tell me more about this. Well, I feel like because it is so I think that piece is really that is that inner piece. That inner part of how we prevent ourselves from creating and living our own lives, is making decisions and moving from a place of fear or anxiety rather than a place of expansion, excitement, desire. Um and it's interesting because it's like I even wrote this down earlier, just randomly made no cost and consequences. And I feel like that that's the thing here, right? We always see the negative consequences of making the bold, expansive choice. Or not always, but many of us, like you were saying. It's it's very common. And I think it's as we've spoken about before, it's applauded and heralded as smart to smart, yeah. Being you're being proactive before you leap. But make sure you've got all your preparations and plans in place and for every possible thing that could go wrong. Um, and very rarely do we do the other side of that, of thinking of what are the cost and consequences of constantly saying no to those soul desires before they even have a chance to unfurl. And I think that was one of the things that really struck me with, you know, kind of the the story of Virginia Wolf and her, you know, her husband had moved, they moved uh into the suburbs of London, and it was meant to be like this very peaceful environment for her where she could heal. And, you know, she had had um suicide attempts, I think, prior to that, and had some, you know, mental issues going on. And so it was really done with with kind of this love, right? Of I want to protect you. And but then also again, that sense of control, like, okay, these are the consequences of staying in London and staying in that place. But then there are all the other consequences of living in the suburbs, of her living this life that wasn't her own, where she didn't feel alive, where she couldn't do her writing. Like that wasn't the life she felt was meant for her. And at least based on this movie, if it's accurate, her husband at the end was like, okay, if if this is what you need, like we'll move back to London. Like there has to be an acceptance of there, there will be costs. There will be consequences to following our heart. That's just how life is. There will also be costs and consequences of not doing that. Yes. And which one are we willing to bear? Which one will we get to be hopefully at a ripe old age of you know, 90 or on our deathbed? Which one will we regret? Yes. And I I love those questions. Go ahead, what were we gonna say? And I feel like at least for for most times, it's like we regret a lot of the chances that we didn't take. And the places where we're like, man, why did I live so small? Or why did I contract so much or never get to like I never even gave it a shot. I never even gave myself a shot to create my own life. Yeah because it was too scary. Yeah. Well, and I think too that we fall into this thinking around like which one's gonna be perfect for me, right? You know, like which one's gonna be the best, like which, you know, when we're trying to make choices and decisions, but nothing comes without problems of some kind or another. And so I know for me, I like to frame it for clients around like, well, which problems do you want to have? Like if you're in a job, you have problems where you have an employer you may have to deal with, or coworkers, somebody's expecting you to be there at a certain time. There are all kinds of norms you have to deal with, et cetera, et cetera. If you're self-employed, you have other kinds of problems like getting clients, raising rates, you know, like all the things making yourself show up when nobody else is holding you accountable. All you know, like both come with problems. Which kinds of problems are you more comfortable with? Which kinds, which problems sound exciting to you? Which ones do you want to face on a daily basis? And it's the same in life in general.

unknown 31:05

Yep.

Discomfort As The Price Of Freedom

Find People Who Cheer You On

Linda 31:07

You know, it's not which one is the more perfect, I'll be happy ever after solution. Which is the one that I think we're sold so often. And I think we do ourselves such a great disservice um with those stories, because I do what it what I love that it's this like there will be problems either way. Like life is gonna life. And I think we have, you know, these very um, you know, like the Joseph Campbell's, like, follow your bliss. And I don't even know what he meant when he said that. He might have meant something totally different than how it's been, you know, memeified in our in our very digital uh shallow world, right? Where it's if because the belief is that if you follow your bliss, then things will be really easy. Like that's gonna be part of your soul path. Um, and I remember having this realization, this was I think maybe it was last year, two years, I don't even remember, it was a while ago, of this, like, oh, like, but how, what is my soul path? Like, I feel like there's so many obstacles to like finding my soul path. And like this voice came in, some deeper, wiser, more wild voice was like, the op what makes you think the obstacles aren't part of your soul path. Like, you're we're not just here to be like la la la, you know, like that's the soul path is how we learn, it's how we grow. Like the obstacle to the path is the path. And but we have such a tendency to do that though. We do that in relationships, like when there are rough parts of relationships, we're like, I just want to get back to the good part, I want to get back to the real part, the good part. And it's like, no, no, no, the whole thing is the relationship. You know, it's like parenting. It's like the whole thing is parenting. It's not just the good times, it's not just the joy, it's all of it. And it's I we have a hard time with that, though. It's and I get it because of course we want ease, we want joy, we want all of that. But but yeah, you're right. And it it really would would be boring without the obstacles. Well, yeah. Well, where would we? How would we? I mean, I I know you can grow without obstacles, but I'm like, most things, everything that grows in life has some kind of obstacle. Every like I look at my sweet little tomato plants that I just planted the day after the last frost, which was like Tuesday or Monday, where it was 32, and now it's freaking 90 degrees, and they're looking withering on the vine. So I'm like, shit, gotta put up the shade cloth and try to protect them. You know, it's like everything in life. There's gonna be wind, there's gonna be rainstorms, there's gonna be thunder, there's gonna be cold snaps, there's gonna be droughts. Everything in life has to grow with those, with those obstacles. Finding, I think, the communities where we can grow together that do make life easier to seek out the things. Of course, it's like it doesn't have to be the John Wayne, like lone cowboy kind of version of it, but I think it's like we have again, it's the all or nothing. It's all the all the obstacles, or it's all only ease. And it's like that's just not life. It's just, it isn't. It really isn't. And I was thinking the other day, actually, I can't remember why, but I was thinking about therapists I've known over the years, and I've known a lot. I've had a lot of therapists as clients, both when I was a therapist and as a coach. Of course, I've had colleagues, I used to supervise beginning therapists and students. And it suddenly hit me as I was like thinking about this random collection of people, that the people who were the best therapists, in my opinion, and who also had more um staying power in the field, because it's not an easy field, were the people who had the rougher childhoods and the rougher experiences as younger people. Whereas the ones who had came from really loving homes with very few issues and had like really what they described as amazing youth, you know, all through going to college. They were perfectly fine people and they got what they were there to do, but there wasn't as much the depth to the relationships or the understanding or even just the um commitment. And I never really thought about that before. I just I don't I don't know why I don't I don't remember why it came up in my own head at the time, but it was an interesting thing to recognize that those like going through those trials, going through those difficult times in and what I can see makes a person more capable and more open to sitting with somebody else who's going through those times. Yeah. And I think part of the issue too becomes that we try to save one another from them, like from the difficulties. I think, especially the kids in our lives, you know, we're like, oh, I don't want you to have to go through any of those troubles when in reality it's like, but that's what that is what will be that salt of wisdom and depth of experience and deep empathy, oftentimes stem from those places. And the forging of strength, you know, it's like if you've never had to push against anything ever, then you just don't develop that kind of fortitude and strength. Yeah. Yeah, a hundred percent. It reminds me, I can't remember who it was. It was an athlete of some kind who was saying, like, oh, we need to teach, we need to teach kids grit. And somebody asked, like, well, how do you do that? Like, you can't teach someone that that comes from experience. That comes from from experiencing hardship and moving through it and getting back up and trying again. And I think that seeing it now, it feels so related also to this process we're talking about at midlife of allowing ourselves to experiment. Because what is that, if not the same thing in some way, of going out and like trying something and being new at it and failing miserably and realizing you love it and still want to continue to learn, or realizing you're like, I was all right at it, but I didn't love it. And so now I'm gonna move and do something different. Like it does have that kind of in a in a way, a little bit of a similar quality of needing to um have that kind of inner sense of strength. So it's interesting that it can show up both as commitment to a specific field and or it can show up as this like ability to experiment. Yeah, well, I think it can show up as being on your own side, you know, it's like a different form of commitment. Yes, yes, but one that we don't really talk about. We rarely talk about actually being on your own side. And I think that's a really important one, especially if you're delving into new territory. I think the other thing is the willingness to be uncomfortable because so much of what I see gets in people's way, especially women, is this desire to try new things, but wanting it to be comfortable. And those two things are just, you know, it's like saying, I want to go to France, but I don't want to have to get on a plane or go over travel over water. Like I don't want to have to be on a boat or a plane, like, but I want to be in France. So, you know, figure that out. Um, and I'm assuming you don't assuming you don't already live in Europe. I'm talking about Americans. Um, I realize we have all kinds of people who live all over the world that listen to this podcast. I want to be clear about that. But you know, it's like that kind of thing of like not being like not being willing to take the chance or feeling too afraid to face whatever discomfort might come. And that's just part of the process and part of the package. Yes. Yes. And we can welcome that. Like it's it's interesting too, like setting an intention of some of the trips that I've done. It's like I'll set an intention at the beginning of the trip of having it be some kind of pilgrimage and experiencing like, oh, what would I experience this like through the lens of this intention, just as a playful experiment again, and how that can shift even the discomfort because you're like, oh, even in the moment, you can sense how you're what it's growing in you. The pieces, I mean, like when you flew out here and it was your first time flying in so many years, and Laura had like legitimately the trip from hell. I mean, it was just top-to-bottom disaster. Including an emergency landing. Literally, the door fell off the plane of the car carving door. Yeah. I was literally just thinking the same thing, and I was saying to Linda, like, what the hell? But at the before the trip, one of my desires was to get used to flying again. I used to be somebody who flew a lot a long time ago. Then I got married and had kids. And the last flight I had taken had been 20 years before. And so I was like, I just want to be good at this again. I want this to be part of my life again. And at the on the very last flight, I was flying home on my birthday after spending, I don't know, five, six hours in Logan Airport where I wasn't even supposed to be. I just ended that's the only way I could get home was to fly through Boston. Um, but anyway, I was on that flight and I was thinking about it and thinking about everything I had experienced. And suddenly I thought, oh, like, talk about trial by fire. Like I'm now very comfortable with just about everything related to flying. And remembering your own capability and your own capacity to have your back have your own back to be able to navigate these difficult things. Like, you know, uh without that, of course, you'd be like, okay, it's fine. Like now you're like, okay, I got I've got this. Yeah. And and for context, I don't think I've shared this here before, but I had years of being afraid to stay in a hotel by myself because my mom tried to keep me safe by telling me all the horrible things that could happen to me. And my mom's terrified of people staying alone in hotels by themselves, women, not men, but you know, and just filled my head with all these things. So I could never sleep. And when my plane had the emergency landing, we ended up landing in Memphis. And I ended up spending the night in a hotel by myself on the ground floor with a sliding glass door. Dun dun dun. And I was like, ah, but I did it and I was okay. And I like two days later, I found out that Memphis is like the number two city in the country for crime. Luckily, after, yeah. After that's good. You didn't need extra. Yeah. But there was a woman checking in at the same time as me, and she they gave her also a ground floor. She was like, I don't want to sleep on the ground floor. And they're like, What's the only room we have? And she said, Well, can I be moved? She was staying for a week. Can I be moved tomorrow? And they said yes. And then she said to me, I never want to stay on the ground floor here. And then I got up there, and there's like, you know, that's all they had was ground floor room. But anyway, I mean, I just there can be a lot of discomfort in this kind of growth. But now I fly like a champ. I'm like, whatever. Fly like a champ, drive solo cross-country like a champ. Stay in hotels by myself all the time. All the time. And I just I really love that because what a I know we're coming up towards the end of our time, and I feel like that is just such a really beautiful image of creating and living your own life. The way that you were like, I haven't flown in a long time. Like they're like, I feel a little uncomfortable with all the new, you know, there's all the new TSA regulations and taking your shoes. Everyone I asked told me different things. So it's like, I don't know what to expect. Yeah, exactly. And then, you know, like, but knowing that I want this to be a part of my life, like I want to be able to have the ability to fly by myself, to have that freedom of driving cross-country and to be, you know, like this is part of what is required, like that growth around, no, but I want to create my life, and my life involves travel. Like my my life involves that level of freedom. And so this is something I'm gonna have to work with. Like this is something I'm growing through. Yeah. And I just I love that so much because I think it's just such a it's like such a beautiful and inspiring image, I think, to end with. Because I know for myself, you know, there are the places where like you were saying, like fear can can overcome or anxiety can run the show a little too much. And it's like, yep, and we can still move forward. Like there are other ways to resource and don't expect it to go away. Don't wait for it to just be like gone. Like, that's not usually how it how it goes. It's not gonna go by thinking about it. I had so many hours of coaching around staying alone in hotel rooms, and none of it helped at all. It was only doing it that helped. And I also have to say that one of the blessings of my life is that I had several people reach out to me. After I started traveling and stuff, and saying, Hey, I just have to point out, like, you used to be terrified to stay in hotels by yourself. And now you're doing it all the time. Like, that's amazing. And I just want to tell you like how proud I am of you. And like it was such, it's such a blessing to have people around me who s knew that about me, never tried to hold me back, never said, Well, you can't do that. You can't stay in a hotel by yourself. But instead, like when I was doing it, we're cheering me on and saying, I just want to point out like that you've overcome this incredible thing. Yeah. I love it. Create people like that in your life if you can, because that really helps when you're undertaking these things. Yeah. And spend a little less time. Don't tell the people who are gonna just feed your anxiety of yeah. Well, did you hear this story about so-and-so who stayed on the bottom floor and then this happened? She hasn't been heard from again. I got a lot of those stories too. Yep. I I tend to tell my mother things I'm doing after I've done them. Very wise. Very wise. I think it's better for her nervous system too. It's not just for me. Yeah. It's better for everyone involved. Yeah. After I've survived and done okay, I can tell her. And she, oh, I'm so glad I didn't know that. Oh, oh my gosh. This was such a joyous conversation. Oh, it's so fun to talk about. I feel like we could we could talk a lot more about this topic. Maybe we should. Yeah, there's so many, there's so many directions to go in, and it feels like such a vastly important one. Um yeah, especially now as there's so many forces that want women to jump back into cages or want to push us back into certain cages. Thinking the same thing. There's so much, so many attempts to constrict us right now. I think it's really important to think about what does it mean right now, even with all these attempts at constriction, to live your own life and to live unapologetically.

Living Uncaged In Constricting Times

unknown 45:56

Yeah.

Closing Goodbye

Linda 45:58

Amen. Amen. All right. Well, dear listeners, until next time.