You do SO Much!

Welcome to the 16th episode of the Woman Uncaged Podcast with Laura Gates-Lupton and Linda Katz!  Today we are diving into women DOING. SO. MUCH.

In this episode, Linda shares why she fell apart when Ursa's dog food order was late (as her husband said, "I don't think this is just about the dog food...") and Laura speaks about feeling proud of herself for cancelling brunch.

Other topics we explore include:
- When you're you doing so much and yet it still never feels like enough
- Why we need to carve out space to ADD what feels nourishing and exciting
- Why time management isn't enough and might actually be problematic in itself!
- The fear of letting balls drop
- What are the expectations that we put on ourselves and that society puts on us that lead us to a place of burnout?
- Why talking about "perennial problems" isn't just complaining and is actually vital
- Looking to male models doesn't work (sorry Cal Newport!)
- How we need the flexibility to meet what arises and what that has to do with releasing control
- Discerning and knowing what matters to us is key to preventing doing too much

We refer to:
- This song by Trevor Hall and Emory Hall about letting go of the old story: https://open.spotify.com/track/0yjJg8qTkgYuD2bvt4kKZl?si=15416ee86fca4dc3
- Slow Productivity  and Deep Work by Cal Newport: https://calnewport.com/

Come see us live at our next Sistermind Roundtable!
We will be speaking, along with four other amazing women, on the topic of Visibility for Women in Business. The six of us will each present for 10 minutes, followed by 15 minutes of Q & A.
 
When: April 24 at 3:30 - 4:45 pm EDT
Where: via Zoom
Register here: https://larisanoonan.myflodesk.com/roundtable

This is a free, no-pitch, no-sell event and you will not be added to any other business email list. Please spread the word! We would love to see a world in which women are no longer afraid to be fully visible.

As always, share your thoughts about this episode with us! You can email us at  womanuncagedpodcast@gmail.com. We'd love to hear from you!

Linda's website: https://singingbirdcoaching.com/
Laura's Monday Money Missives: https://www.dearlaura.net/letters

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

Linda 0:03

Hello and welcome to the Woman Uncaged Podcast. This is our 16th episode. And I am here with my business bestie, Linda Katz, who is an amazing coach. I had an incredible session with her this week. So grateful to you, Linda, for that time. She just is a soul whisperer. I don't even know how else to describe her. She just, she's one of the best listeners I have ever experienced. We're just saying something because most of my friends are therapists and coaches and they're all good listeners, but Linda listens with a depth that I don't often experience. And it's so powerful to be in her presence. So if you're looking for a coach, a soulful coach to help you bring out your wild feminine and help you interpret your dreams and help you understand yourself way better than you do now. I highly recommend Linda Katz. Over to you, Linda.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

Oh, thank you so much.

Linda 0:56

I'm blushing. You guys can't see me, but I felt all clipped. Um, I'm here with my beloved good friend, business bestie, co-conspirator, Ms. Laura Gates Lepton, who is just a delightful, wise, soulful, beautiful, big-hearted person, human being, coach, woman who helps women to step into more of their power at midlife, which I don't know about you, but as a midlife woman, that is something that I am really wanting to reclaim, um, particularly in areas of money making. So if you want some help in those areas, I cannot recommend Laura enough. And today we are going to be diving into doing a lot. Oh, nobody can relate to that. No, exactly. We're just sitting around. Uh, so this came up in a conversation that we had earlier this week, and somebody had said to you, Laura, you do so much. And when you said those four words, it was like, one, I felt how true that was from what I know of you and who I know you to be. And it was very interesting because something similar happened to me uh when I was doing my taxes with like the woman at HR Block, and she was like, You do a lot. You wrote a well, you did this, you wrote a book, and you also work and you do coaching, and you and I was like, Yeah. And I think just hearing those words, you do so much. It's almost for me what it feels like is like a level of exhaustion that is revealed, is named, and therefore can actually be felt and acknowledged. And I think this is something as women that many of us are all too familiar with, is that we do a lot, and yet somehow it feels like it's just not enough. Yeah. The funny thing is that it sounds like when the HR block person said it to you, you were like, Yeah, I do do a lot. When this woman said it to me, I was like, Do I? Can't see me rolling my eyes right now, but I'm like, Yes. I mean, I know I do in a sense, but I I think this is the thing though, like this is the crux of the issue, is that it can you can know you're doing a lot. Like I have this really long to-do list. I'm always figuring out different ways to manage it. And at the same time, I don't necessarily feel like I'm doing enough. And I think that is the crux of the problem. Because it's like when someone says it, she's like, wow, you do a lot. It's like, hmm, I don't know. I was thinking of adding some things to my list, which is true. That's part of the problem. I'm always coming up with ideas and things that I want to do. Um and it's hard to know how to make the space for that, right? Like yes. Yes. I think that there is, um, at least for me, there is a uh exactly what you said, like the propensity to want to add new things and things that we get energized about and things that we get excited about. And I had another conversation this week that was about that, like, oh, maybe that will re-infuse, you know, that excitement and energy into other areas of your life. And I was like, no, no, I can't add any more shit, like without taking something away. And I think that that process of taking things off our plates, of saying, I'm not gonna do this thing anymore, whatever that may be, of letting go of certain aspects, certain strings that we're holding, um, can be so difficult. I was just listening to a song before we got on and I added it to a new playlist in my Spotify that was letting go 2024 because it's like I just really feel this need to want to carve out more spaciousness, to be able to hear my own inner voice, to know what I'm what I'm moving towards, to have the energy to be able to direct it into those avenues. But when there's so much on my plate, it's like it's just it feels like so many days can be a race to the finish. Yeah. Totally, I totally feel that. And I I I also feel the longing for spaciousness, like the longing for an unscheduled day. Um which is hard to come by. It's really hard to come by, at least at this current phase that I'm in right now. Um, but I just I I hate living by the clock. It's one of those things that drives me crazy. I and so I I would love to have a day where it didn't matter what time it was. Like it wouldn't matter what time I got up, it wouldn't matter when I ate, it wouldn't matter what I did, and it wouldn't matter when I had dinner or when I went to bed, right? Like I would just love to have a day where it's like I can do all those things when it feels like the right time to do those things. Yeah. Oh feels like a big exhale in my body. Yeah. Rather than our overly, and it's something that like overly scheduled lives, and it's something that like I it's staunchly kind of against my my whole view of life, and yet it's so easy to get sucked back into that overly scheduled place of having, and I think it's like the even the words time management. I've been telling my husband, you know, I'm like, I think I just need to be better at time management. And I'm like, I fucking hate those words. I don't want to be better at time management, I just want less shit in my day. You know, it's and I think part of it is and and let me know how this resonates for you. It's this sense, I think, as as women, you know, as we've spoken about before, there are certain like domestic aspects of life that just tend to fall more heavily on the shoulders of women still, um, whether it comes to the doing or particularly like the mental load, the management of the household, those pieces. And then, you know, like if you're you have the ways of making money, we also have our creativity, you know, there are all these aspects of life. If you're a mother, you know, you have if you have children, depending on what age they are, there's so many things pulling at our attention. And I just don't think that our society is set up in a way that actually supports women. No, to be able to move through our days with spaciousness, with nourishment, with because I think it's like we weren't meant to do this thing sitting at home in our houses by ourselves. Like, you know, it's like it becomes that longing for something more communal, something a little bit more village-like, something where there is more shared, um shared responsibility, shared tasks. You know, like I don't know. It's just it just feels like it's hard to feel like we're on the eight ball, like, you know, like on top of it. Like I always feel like I'm behind the eight ball. Like recently, it's like I just like I'm always like a step behind. And I'm trying to catch up. But I think it's like the whole thing is kind of set up like that.

SPEAKER_03 8:53

No, I agree.

Linda 8:54

Yeah, I agree. I I think the unpaid work of women is what keeps the world going. I don't know whether that's whether that's parenting or whether it's caregiving giving of parents, or whether it's management of the home and of the social life and the volunteering and all of those pieces, all of those things that happen. It's like what would happen if we stopped? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. It's pretty hard to fathom, isn't it? It is hard to fathom. And I really feel like the world would kind of fall apart. Right. And it's there's this piece I for me, and I think it's true for you too, Linda, is it's hard to let the balls drop. It's really hard to let them drop. It's hard to see what the fallout will be. Yeah. And I know I've heard this talked about before in terms of ego, like um, in terms of volunteering specifically. Like, you know, if I don't do it, no one will. Like then there's, you know, people are like, oh no, no, someone will step in. But it's not that, it's not the ego piece. It's more just like we are keeping a lot together. We're keeping a lot going. And you don't really know where those balls are going to fall when you stop juggling them. Yes. Yeah. And there's there's that, I think that fear of letting go that comes in of um also handing other people back. Sometimes, you know, at least for me, I have responsible, I have balls in the air that aren't necessarily my balls. Right. Right. That it's that we keep in the air, but that's just, you know, it becomes like these implicit agreements that we then just keep going. Right. And, you know, it's like, what happens if I let go of those? And can I be okay with whatever happens if I put those balls down? Right. Which that might mean that that something that I value might not be done as well. There might be, you know, like implications for people I love, whatever that is. Like, can I let go of the balls that really aren't my responsibility and be okay with the fallout? Right. And sometimes the answer is no.

unknown 11:15

Yeah.

Linda 11:16

That's what's so hard.

SPEAKER_00 11:17

And then we hold on to the balls, it's just so we burn out, and then all the balls just fall.

Linda 11:23

I feel like I'm in one of those situations right now with a kid who needs to learn to drive, well, is learning to drive. And back when we first started on this learning to drive journey, I had already taught one kid to drive. I do not enjoy it. Sitting in the passenger seat of a car in which somebody who does not know how to drive has control is not fun for me. Like my time when my daughter mistook the gas for the brake and almost had a major accident. I mean, it was terrifying. I shook for 20 minutes afterwards. So when kid number two needed to learn to drive, I was like, you know what? We're gonna throw some money at this problem. We're gonna hire someone to teach you how to drive. There's there are driving schools here. We hired one of them, and they turned out not to be any good. So we spent way too much money. Kid went to take the driver's test, got the worst examiner in this county. He's famous for failing people. Literally, they pulled away from the curb. I was texting my husband, they just left and they came back. Like I hit send as they were coming back. That was it. That was it with the try again sometime. And then kiddo went off for internship and you know, came back and so came back, I guess, nine months later. So nine months with no driving. And then so we've been working on it ever since with the test coming up again. And I'm just so like tired of it. And it's he's perfectly fine. I feel safe with him behind the wheel. It's not that, it's just that the person I happen to be married to will not pick up part of this. And even though I've asked a bunch of times and occasionally has taken kiddo out for a short drive, but not much at all. So it and it so it's just come down to like, okay, it's really important that this kid get his driver's license. And so I'm just gonna have to do this, but but oh, I can't wait till it's over. Yeah, and it's like it's another thing, right? That it ends up on our plates. And it's you know, we were talking about this just before we hit record, how when our lives are so full already, time-wise, schedule-wise, but I would also say just energetic bandwidth. Yep. Is when something invariably unexpected comes along, which it always does, you know. Oftentimes my husband will be like, Yeah, you know, this happened, but now everything is, and I'm like, stop saying that it's good now. Like it's just, I just feel like I'm like, I I've just come to expect that it's like having elderly parents, like having there's just things that that will come up, right? That um, but when we don't have that bandwidth to work with, it's like it becomes like the straw that broke the camel's back, you know, and it's like as I've in in past iterations like approached that point of burnout, it's like I usually will know that point when it's like the smallest thing just you know, tips me over the edge. Like if it was uh a couple weeks ago, I think, when you know, this wasn't just burnout related, it was also kind of grief that had to be felt about losing, you know, giving away our foster puppy or sending her to her forever home, I should say. And, you know, Ursa, her our puppy, her food, I needed to order it. And I was like, okay, I had been kind of like I had it in my head for like a few days before that, that I need to order her food. And she gets a food that's not really available at a lot, like a you know, a pet co. And so I was, I had been aware of it and I was like, okay, I have enough. Like now I can order it. I remember to do it. And then the frickin store was like they were renovating, and so they're like, we're closed for the next five days. We'll process all your orders in like a week. And I was and I literally fell apart. I just fell apart. And Eric's looking in at me, he's like, I don't think this is just about the dog food. Good guess, Eric. Exactly. It's like because it's that, it's like when when there's things that it's like everything has to kind of, you know, when time has to be so carefully managed, yes, there's very little room in me. Like I start to grow really rigid. And that's like a personal kind of pattern for me. That it's like, okay, this is not a good place. Like I need to have a bit more flexibility and stretchiness.

SPEAKER_03 15:55

Yeah.

Linda 15:56

Because otherwise it's it's that. It's like I'm losing my shit because, and then I ended up finding the dog food, you know, somewhere else. It wasn't, you know, it wasn't the end of the world. But for that 10 minutes, I was like stomping around and I was just so mad, and I was like, why is everything so hard? And I'm crying, she's gonna starve. You know, it's like, what is even happening right now? And you know, and I think it in part it is because when when we're doing so much, one, there's also very little space to feel, which is something that we've talked about, I think on the podcast before, is that when we're in that busy mode, we never have we never allow our feelings to find us. And so when they do, they come out in those kinds of ways where it's like Ursa's gonna starve.

SPEAKER_00 16:43

As if you'd let her starve. That's what Eric was saying. He's like, as if you know, you'd find something else to give her. Like you would cook her food if you had to. I'm like, well, I already kind of do. Yes, that's what I was thinking. Yeah. So yeah.

Linda 16:59

I have a I have a question for you.

unknown 17:01

Yeah.

Linda 17:01

Um, what do you think are the expectations that we either put on ourselves or are put on us that lead us to this place of burnout? I think that this idea that I think there's a few things. I think there's kind of this idea of perfection. I think there's this idea of doing it all and doing it all well. I think this idea of balance, which we've kind of touched upon briefly before, I think that um it doesn't allow for seasons in our life. But we we basically expect that we're gonna be able to do um all the things regardless of the season that is in our lives. And like for me, we got the puppies in in December. And that was like a huge change, you know, to have puppies are they're a lot of work. And especially when there are two of them, especially when there's two of them. And I did not take anything off my own plate. Like my expectation of myself was that everything else would continue in the exact same vein that it had. And then, of course, when that isn't possible, what's the first thing that comes off? You everything me, exactly? Everything else, I will meet those deadlines, I will meet those expectations. But guess what? That journaling practice out the window. The daily walk doesn't happen. That's the thing that comes off the to-do list. And then I wonder why I'm crying over the dog food fucking running out. You know what I mean? How about you? Is there anything else that you see that you feel like contributes to that? I think the carefully curated lives of other people contributes to that, that we see over and over and over again. Because there is this idea that somehow everybody else is doing it and doing it well. And effortlessly. Effortlessly, yes. And it seems like we either see that or we see the extreme opposite. Like we see people who are falling apart and being public about it, and then we look down on them in some way or another, like what wonder what she's got going on over there. You know, it's like, um, but we don't see much in the middle, right? Unless we're talking to each other, which I think is a an antidote to all of this, is to just be talking to each other about how hard this is. Yes, and what our lives actually look like. Yes. Rather than the lives that we're presenting, or you know, because exactly like you said, if we're not talking to one another, then it just becomes this kind of performative veneer that has become the norm in our age of digital and social media. And it's very lonely. It is. It's very lonely. Because if you're not actually sharing with people what's really going on, they're not really seeing you. And then when something happens where you're like, I need, I really need somebody to talk to. You don't know who to go to because there's nobody there that you you feel like you can rely on because you haven't had that level of sharing. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like then we realize, I think when we do have those opportunities for those kinds of conversations, we realize that it's like oftentimes that the external, even if it's like someone's external perception of us is oftentimes different from our own internal experience. And that's just social media or no social media, right? Unless we're listening to each other and curious about one another and asking one another about our experiences, we there will always be that disconnect that it's like, oh, I feel this way. I had a conversation with a friend earlier today, and she's like, you're just you just always choose like to be happy. And I'm like, is that true? Like, I don't like, I was like, oh, that's really interesting that that's your perception of me. And meanwhile, I'm having this kind of like midlife crisis going through, like, what am I doing with my life? You know, and I'm like, but that's not what is seen. Like my inner experience isn't what what somebody else who even knows me well necessarily how they might perceive my life. Um, and so we need to have those conversations. And I was like, yeah, I'm so glad you see it that way. And I was like, this is kind of how I feel.

SPEAKER_00 21:37

It doesn't always feel that way. Sometimes it does, but not always.

Linda 21:41

Right. Yeah, I think the other piece too is that we can feel like if we've talked about a problem a couple of times, then we shouldn't talk about it again. Like we shouldn't still be having the problem. And in this situation, in particular, of having too much to do and not Feeling the spaciousness that we'd like is a perennial problem. It's not something that just goes away. And it's something that comes up, even if you get better at it in some way or another and somehow manage to build in some spaciousness, things will come around, right? Like I got a call from my mom the other day that my dad has some serious health issues, and which means I need to go out there and take them to medical appointments. And it's like the last thing I wanted to hear. It's like I didn't want to hear about my dad having this issue because I, you know, of course, feel bad for him. But also it's like this thing I have to add in and I don't know how.

SPEAKER_03 22:34

Yeah.

Linda 22:34

Um, but it's, you know, I like so I have a dear friend, a local friend. We walk at least once a week together, and often she talks about her struggle with work taking over her life. She has, she's always had stressful jobs. And she says to me sometimes, like, you must be so tired of hearing about this. And I'm not. And I get that it's a, it's a, it's an ongoing problem. You know, that it's not something, it's not a one and done, it's solved, but I think that's also an issue because we do often, as women, feel like, oh, I can't keep talking about this. People are gonna be tired of hearing it a hundred percent. Because I think there is this sense that we should have, we should have fixed it by now. Because again, if everything is our responsibility to fix, right, then it's it's a personal shortcoming that I'm managing my time less than ideally. It's solely a personal shortcoming, right? Rather than, no, this is actually like you said, a systemic issue that we do need to keep talking about because I think it's like as we speak about it more and recognize that it's not just us, when we realize, okay, maybe it's not just a maybe I'm not a flawed individual. Um we can begin to ask other questions. And we can begin to ask the bigger questions of like, okay, but then why is this happening? Why is this the norm? Why is this accepted as being the norm? Yes. You know, like that's when, and that's when we start asking the dangerous questions. Yeah. Because that's when we start looking at the big shit. And I'm like, rather than, oh, I just need a better system. Yes. I need a better system. For a better system. The kind of a better system, a life hack, better time management skills. I need this, I need that, like something, it's me. It's me. I need to, if I could just fix this thing, then you know, I'll be able to do it. And it's like, what if all of life just isn't set up for that? And that's that's a bigger, that's a much bigger question that we're living in with because we also live in this culture. We have to live and exist within it. And I think we're all just doing our best, kind of flailing around. Try to find the way to do that without sacrificing ourselves, without sacrificing the things that are really meaningful to us. Yes. And I also think that we can make um I don't want to say mistake, it's too strong of a word, but it can harm us, it can make it worse if we look to men as models. Say more. Well, I'm thinking about like Cal Newport, whom I I like his work, I like his books. Um, but his book, Deep Work, a number of my clients read it, and then we're beating themselves up because they didn't have the time to do the deep work, and we're feeling like they were less than because, but I'm like, he's a guy, he doesn't have the responsibilities that you have. It's like, look at his life. Does his life compare to yours? Yeah. Like, no. Right. And are the expectations that are placed upon him the same as they are of you? No. No, no. So when he's making these assertions about how you know quality work is important and you need to give yourself these big, you know, swathes of time in which to do deep thinking and deep work. And the women are like, well, my kids are in school from eight to two, and I have to do all these other things. And I how do I do this? And then it again, it becomes a personal it becomes another failing. Or so that's how it's internalized, but it's looking at the wrong model. It's the it's it's looking at the unattainable.

SPEAKER_03 26:31

Yes.

Linda 26:32

Now he happens to have a new book out, by the way, called Slow Productivity that one of my clients just read, and she recommended it to me, and I just started it, and it seems pretty good. And he actually does talk about it's the first time that I've seen in Ivy's books. This is particularly hard from others. So somebody got into his ear. And I'm grateful to whoever she was. You're like, this is not an attainable model. Right. But that's also been who we have learned from. You know, it's kind of like I write about in my book. It's like this idea of creativity or yeah, deep thinking, or all of these things where it's, you know, I think of somebody like Carl Jung, where like he had the women in his life that were running the day-to-day things so that he could go and like build his tower, whatever he did in the backyard. You know what I mean? It's like I think Henry David Thoreau had his mother doing his laundry and his cooking. I mean, I think he lived with her. I just looked at that. I was like, wait, what? Like, what is why has that been left out of the freaking story? Right. This whole idea of like you go off into the woods and you're self-sufficient and you have all this time to just think and like what woman has that? Right. Very few. And it's it's um and I think that it's like, can we redefine what is quote unquote like deep thinking? Can we redefine, and I think it comes back to this idea of finding ways of carving out spaciousness or having that spaciousness in our own lives in ways that work for us, right? And in um where it's not like we're kind of, you know, bludgeoning ourselves because we're not having, you know, the deep, the deep time or whatever it is, because the amount of responsibilities and things that were just in our lives, like those are very real and we can't let go of everything. You know what I mean? It's like when we started our call about like what can we take off our plates? It's like, yeah, there are certain things that we probably can, but there's also a good chunk that we're we can't or that we don't want to, right? Well, then there's some fallout we don't want to experience, right? Like our children having no clean clothes and no food in their bellies. Yeah, it's like and it becomes not having any food, Linda. Yeah, exactly. I feel like then it's like it's like becomes this question of how can we support one another in ways in, you know, it's like if if these models don't work, how can we support one another and creating something new that honors this aspect of you know having quote unquote responsibilities, but also deep caring in the world in all of these different ways without it falling into the old kind of self-sacrificial thing? Right. Right. I think that's a great question. And I think at least part of the answer is the web that we always refer to. You know, it's building those relationships, particularly with other women, where we can fall back a little bit and have somebody else help us out. You know, that's it's been so lovely over the past week and a half because my kiddo has been struggling after very difficult wisdom tooth extraction, all four, and then ended up with an abscess. And uh, it's just been so hard. And so many people around me have reached out and asked, like, what can I do? Like, can I go to the store? Can what do you need? Like, and I haven't necessarily had to take anybody up on it, but it's been so helpful to know that they're there just even that much. I mean, I was joking to my friend about because I've been making soup literally every night, homemade soup, because that's soups look delicious, by the way. You could start her own cook, like soup cookbook. Or his next iteration, not that you're doing enough already. Now you have to write a soup cookbook, I'm afraid. But it's the only thing that he's been able to eat. So like I've been just making soups and blending them, you know. Um, and one of my friends texted me and said, Hey, do you need more soup ingredients? I'm going to the store.

unknown 30:36

Oh.

Linda 30:36

But and it was so appreciated that because it's not only the offer, but it's the recognition, right? It's like she knows what's happening here. She thought of me and she asked. And I actually didn't need her to do that, but it still felt like I was being held in some way.

SPEAKER_03 30:52

Yeah.

Linda 30:53

Which just it's so lovely to actually be seen and to have somebody know like what you're up against. Yes, a hundred percent. And I think too, you know, it's that um something that I know I want to kind of craft and create more of because we moved here, we moved back to Plano in the pandemic, and we have, you know, parents here, but they're they're more, you know, elderly at this point. But to have um those kinds of relationships that are close by, like that really in the flesh community, because I have an amazing community of of friends and people in my life that are like, you know, the emotional support, the, you know, deep connections, but unfortunately, they're scattered all over the damn country and world, you know? And so having those, having those connections even in um the physical community where we live, I think is something that is um really important. I think that many people, at least from from what I hear, can be a little bit tricky these days. Yes. Yeah.

unknown 31:59

Yeah.

Linda 31:59

And in fact, one of my neighbors also asked me, like, what can I do to help? And I said I wouldn't say no to a glass of wine or a cup of tea one of these evenings. And so I'm going over there after we're done recording. Um, yeah, because we're we're graduating to pasta and sauce tonight for dinner. We'll see how that goes. Not making soup. Hey, it's nice and soft. It's nice and soft. I do make a mean uh homemade marinara, by the way. Um I am having that. But um, but you know, that's like having somebody ask and being able to give an honest answer. Like this is what would really be helpful. I want to get out of my house for a little while. I want to come to your house. Have either tea or wine or both. I want to see you, I want to talk, I don't want to be because when we're in our homes, oftentimes it's like, you know, we talk about mental load. Everything we see everything that is is undone. And this is something that I was talking with Eric when I was earlier today, where I was like, I think part of the reason that I feel like behind the eight ball is that oftentimes I'll see everything, like there's like that mental tally of everything that yet still needs to be done. And then I get overwhelmed and then I just do none of it. Yes, because I'm like, I just want to break. And then it just piles up more and more. And so just having that um having that space away, like away from that to be cared for, you know, to be loved up on, um, to be given a hug, to be asked how we are. And like you said that to not have to be perfect. But what were you gonna say? I'm sorry I cut you off. Oh no, like that recognition of like I see how much you're doing. And I think that there is something here where it's like it kind of goes back to that idea of the village, like something that we're missing that I think many like I can speak for myself. I'm hungry to to reimagine for myself how I do this thing called life. And sometimes I get really like grandiose with it and I imagine it on like a huge scale, but it's also like coming back and reimagining it for for me and for like what does that look like to have that web of support like communally, yeah, like globally, right? In all these different ways. Um and how might that support each of us in letting go of some things? Carving out more of that space for ourselves, like that question of like who do I get to be? Yeah, who would I get to be if I could just let go of some of these pieces that maybe I don't need to hold on so tightly to? Can I trust in my own capacity to be with what comes? Can I let go of key one right there? The control piece. It's just always the control. Well, and to be able to be honest about it, like to to trust your capacity to deal with the things as they come and to be honest about them. So, like last week, I well, Saturday, yesterday, we're recording on Sunday. I was I had a brunch scheduled for my friend who just turned 80. So we were having friends come and I planned this whole brunch. I went out, bought all the stuff, and then on Thursday night, I realized my kid wasn't doing too well. And then Friday morning, I was like, we've got to go to see the dentist. There's something clearly wrong. And so we went and bingo abscess, right?

unknown 35:26

Yeah.

Linda 35:26

So I thought, well, I have to cancel the brunch. Like, first of all, he can't even eat. Secondly, I the house is not at the standard I want it to be to have this brunch party. And I haven't been able to do any of that because I've been taking care of this kid and managing all the other things. And I have to say, I was proud of myself because I just I just looked at it realistically and thought, this has to happen. I have, I've got to postpone the brunch. And I did it without feeling guilty, which is a huge step, you know, and everybody was totally fine, and we're scheduled for next weekend. And as it turned out, the person we were having the brunch for, she was like, I woke up with a sore throat this morning and I was debating. I didn't know you're doing all this work, and I didn't know whether I should say I can't come. So it all worked out just fine. But you know, as women, I think often we feel like I have, but I have to pull this off. I have to somehow get the house clean. I have to make this incredible meal. I have to. Yep. I said I would. I said I would. I can't go, I can't go back on my, you know, offer now. I mean, how many times is that the case? And then it's like trying to wedge, like you said, like, okay, but in order to make it happen, I have to clean the house, I have to make sure the kitchen's fit, I have to go shopping, I have to do this thing, as opposed to being like, I actually can't. There's no way, there's no way. Like, I just don't have not at not without personal cost.

SPEAKER_03 36:50

Uh-huh.

Linda 36:50

Let's put it that way. It's not that there's no way. I could have done it actually, I'm sure. But I they would have all shown up on sun Saturday at noon, yesterday at noon, and and I would have been a wreck. Like I internally, like I'm sure I would have pulled it off and nobody would have noticed. But I don't want that. Yeah. I don't want to. Go ahead. I I'm just gonna repeat what you said there. I'm sure I could have pulled it off and nobody would have noticed. And it's like that is the lonely place. Yes. Right. That's the place where I think as women we feel so unseen and alone. And that like even the times when we pull it off, we have to put on the smiley, happy. You know, I think of all the like Pinterest, you know, birthday parties now for kids where it's like even if there's all this stress, you have to put on the smiley face and like I pulled it off though, and so I'm gonna pretend that it was really great. And it's so it's like such a lonely place to be again because it's it's so separate from the truth of our experience, so separate from our reality. Yeah, that instead of being a moment of connection, it becomes this the the event itself becomes further proof of like the separation or the gulf between us and other people. Right. Right. Nobody sees me. Yep. Yeah because I don't allow them to, right? I I I I pulled it off. I pulled it off, and this isn't about me. So it's like it's about the part, you know, and it's like it comes from a good place, right? It's like, yeah, you want to shower your friend with love. You don't want to be like, it was so hard to pump this part, right? No, that's the worst. Actually, my mother does that. She'll mite us all over and then be like, this has been so hard. You're like, or you can just say no, right? Like, like, why are we here then? Right. It's like it's finding those places where can we do it with genuine joy? And there those times exist, right? If this hadn't been the case, like if you know your your kid hadn't had massive dental surgery and you hadn't been home making soups every night, like on top of all the other shit you do, like you probably would have been excited to have this brunch, right? There's but there it comes from that space of like, I'm actually not, I don't have like I think our friend, our mutual friend Suzanne will say, like, I don't have the spoons. I don't have the spoons. I'm I'm out of spoons right now. Like I just I I don't have the energy for it. Oh, just looking around the house and just thinking about everything that needed to be done in order to I was just like, I don't think I can do this. And then I decided, like, I'm just gonna sit and go over the facts in my head about what is happening right now and what you know, and then as I was thinking it through very factually, not so much emotionally, I was like, this can't happen. Like, I there's no way this can happen with any sanity attached to it.

SPEAKER_03 39:44

Yes.

Linda 39:45

And then it was very easy to send the messages to be like, hey, this is what we're up against right now, and I need to postpone. Amazing. Amazing.

unknown 39:54

Yep.

Linda 39:54

Oh, I celebrate that with you because I know that it's it can be really difficult. And I think that a lot of people I know myself like resonate with that that kind of good girl, that good woman. Like, if you said you're gonna do something, you better do it. Oh, you better do it with a smile on your face. That was drilled into my head as a kid. And then there have been times when I've had to cancel things because somebody was sick or something, and I've gone over it in my head, like, did I really have to cancel? Could I have done like like even just doubting, like, did I really have to, you know, it's like this time I didn't do any of that. I was just like, okay, we're just everybody's fine, we're postponing it all worked out, and fine, good. Yeah, yeah. It's like, could I have made it happen? Like I just I know that feeling well. It's like rather than you know, being able to say, like, I can't do this right now, like that's and having it not be a thing, you know, right? That's yeah, it's like why does it have to be this big guild storm of like I've let people down? Is anybody even gonna remember five years from now which weekend the brunch happened? Right. I think it comes back from this kind of like that binary that we we've been brought up in, where it's either you either care about yourself, aka you're selfish, or you care about other people and you're a good person. So but there's no option of like doing both of those things, right? Like that that there's actually the possibility that it doesn't have to be A or B, but that there are moments where it's like we have to do both. Yeah, absolutely. Well, in are you really caring for other people if it's coming from an empty cup? Right, or is it just going through the motions? Right. If it's coming from a place of obligation solely, yeah, versus that, but like because I think that you can feel the difference. Oh yeah, right when somebody is genuinely excited to throw you a party because they're just they you want to, right? Like it feels different for everyone involved. Yes. But in order to get to that place, we need to have the additional energy. Yes. There's a great story that Michael Neal, who's a coach that I have been in out in and out of his world a bunch of times. I've taken some classes with him, he's my mentor for a while. Um, he was an actor in Scotland before he became a coach. And I'm laughing because I'm watching Ursie Licklinda's face right now. Um, but anyway, he was an actor. He was had a role in a sitcom in Scotland for a while. And he, you know, he's American. And after a while, he asked one of the actors, he got to be pretty close with, like, how come you never invite me home to like for the weekend or for dinner or anything? It's like, you know, and the guy was like, Oh, I'm sorry, mate. It's my mom's cooking. You can taste the hate. And I love that story so much because I can just imagine this woman whom I've never met and I don't know what she looks like or anything, having to make food night after night after night and hating it. Uh-huh. And yeah, and he's just like, no, I'm not bringing you home because of that. Right. You can taste the hate. Well, yeah, because there's some people who love making food. That's like an expression, like that's a love language of theirs. It is not necessarily one of mine. Maybe occasionally. It is not usually one of mine, which is why you're making homemade soups. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 43:32

Like it's homemade broth, too, by the way. Oh my God, going above and beyond. You do so much. Make all of us other ones look bad buying our broth at the store.

Linda 43:49

It's very easy to make homemade broth. If anyone wants to know, send me an email. I'll tell you how. It's all vegetarian, by the way. Sounds delicious. Thank you. Oh, it's been such a good conversation. I feel like we've just scratched the surface though. I think so too. I mean, there's there's so much here. And I think that it's such a common, like you said, it's a it's it's pervasive. It's it's not like a one, this is not a one and done fix it. Because again, falling into the idea that this is like a life hack that could possibly fix it is part of the fucking problem to begin with, right? I love the way you just said that. It's so true. It is part of the fucking problem to begin with. So it's like, but that's the it's so easy because we we don't really have a way, we're not taught how to to be with these kinds of things that are like, oh, this is uncomfortable and I can't fix it right away. Right. And it's gonna be something that maybe can't even be fixed. Right. Like you said, you know, it's like we can get a little bit, we can find ways of you know building a bit more spaciousness into our day, but there will always be the moments of the sick kid or you know, the parent that needs caretaking or something that sometimes at the same time.

SPEAKER_00 45:13

Yeah, exactly. That's all our week has been.

Linda 45:18

So it's like just being able to to commiserate and to share and to be with each other and to have that support during those times when it's like that. I think makes such a huge difference, and also just being able to name it, like we talked about, like having it be named, like you do so much, Laura, for your clients, for your family, for your colleagues, for your friends. Like, oh you do a lot. Well, thank you, Linda. You do a lot too. You do an awful lot, actually. I couldn't believe it when I was at Linda's house, which is like cooking food for her dogs. I was like, hey, a lot of people don't eat as well as those dogs. They're well loved, and they are very well loved. But yeah, I wonder that Nanny, when she went to her forever home and started getting kibble, was like, no, I'm good. What the fuck is this?

SPEAKER_00 46:14

It's not what I'm used to. Where's my green juju and my freshly made turkey?

unknown 46:19

Right.

Linda 46:20

I am used to five-star accommodations. Exactly. What is this? No thanks. Yeah, no, you do a lot. And you you uh stepped up for me this week too, in a way that I really appreciate. So thank you. Thank you. And it's we want to be able to, I think that this says something too. It's like we don't have to wear it as a badge of an honor, but it's like that we want to have the bandwidth to be able to do the things that matter to us. Yes. It's letting go of some of the other pieces that are what we're taught should matter more that maybe don't to us, so that we can have the space and the flexibility to be there when we want to be. Yes. Yeah, I think there's a really important piece there. Like sometimes the things that we think are important, like the clean house, for example, aren't really that important. I mean, it also because it just gets dirty again. It's like I love having a clean house, but sometimes sacrificing the time for it knowing that in a few days it's not gonna look like I did much. Yeah, it just doesn't feel worth it.

SPEAKER_03 47:31

Yeah.

Linda 47:31

You know, I'd so much rather be there for a friend, uh, for example, as you were for me this week. Um, but because yeah, it's just that has so much more meaning. Yes. It's like letting go of the things where it's like that cultural conditioning piece of like sorting the seeds, discerning does this really matter to me? Like, does it matter so much that I want to be able to, you know, take away this time that I could spend doing something else? You know, it's like all that other shit can wait. So much of it is just so much of the stuff that I stress about that I think we culturally stress about, like it's just in the end of the day, you're like, why? I know. I think the perfection piece is a big one, as you mentioned at the very top of this call. Um, as you know, I had a podcast interview this week and the the interviewers' internet kept freezing while we were talking, and then he sent me the recording after, and toward the end it does glitch. And I there is me frozen on the uh on the screen with really interesting faces. Um, and he said, let's re-record. Like it's it didn't, you know, and I was like, no, it's done. We had a great conversation, just put it out there as it is, it doesn't have to be perfect because I didn't want to take the time to re-record it, you know? It's like, and that there has there's a part there about like, do I really want people seeing me with my face like, eh, you know, not really, but who cares, right? Right, exactly. It's like finding ways to sweat the small stuff less so that we can let go of those pieces and maybe also carve out, if not more time, just more like mental space to think about the things that bring us joy. Yeah, and I guess I'll I'll say one more thing and then we'll wrap up, but also to not give into the propensity to fill it. Right? Like that's one of the part or parts of the problems is sometimes we do carve out space and then we fill it. Yeah, it's like it's like it comes like nature abhors a vacuum.

SPEAKER_00 49:46

So it's just like here's this space, and then all of a sudden it's like, nope, there it went. Bye. You were lovely for that 20 seconds. You're so good. Why did I say yes to that? Because I had the time all of a sudden.

Linda 50:02

Yeah. Uh life and humaning. But we would love to hear what you all think about this topic. And you know, do you feel like you do a lot? And how does this how does this resonate with you? Because I think the majority of of particularly women that I know do a lot. They we've got a lot of balls in the air. And um, yeah, we see you. We hear you. And and we'd love to know like what would be helpful for us to talk about. What what do you want to name around this? Yeah. Email us anytime. Please do. And if you enjoy this podcast, please give us uh a like or a subscription or leave a review or just give us a five-star rating. Five stars would be great. Five stars. Send it to your friends. Yes, that's the greatest. Is just we need more women having these conversations um to be able to normalize them because you know, we're up against this kind of onslaught of um shiny veneers of I got everything together. We we don't, no one's no, no, that's bullshit, guys. It's not, yeah. I mean, maybe if you have a full-time staff and I think even not then, because you know what? Emotions, human life, we're never gonna have it together. We could have certain aspects of our life together, but I don't believe in anybody being like, if you're if you get too much perfection, I'm like, mm, there's something deep swimming beneath the surface that you're ruining my fantasy, Linda. So my why I have feelings about Tom Hanks, but that's a topic for another podcast.

SPEAKER_00 51:48

Ooh, I'm gonna remember that one. Next week, Linda's thoughts on Tom Hanks are rant.

Linda 51:56

Ooh, that'll be interesting. Okay, bye for now.

unknown 52:01

Bye.